By her own account, its title wasn\u2019t what she led with in proposing new projects to Image Comics or her artist collaborator.<\/p>\n
But, Kelly Sue DeConnick told the laughing, applauding crowd at Image Expo earlier this month, of the potential books she suggested to publisher Eric Stephenson and artist Valentine De Landro, both latched onto one \u2014 one she was eager to confront herself: \u201cBitch Planet.\u201d<\/p>\n
The upcoming comic series from the writer of the intense, mythological western \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d at Image Comics and \u201cAvengers Assemble\u201d and the once and future \u201cCaptain Marvel\u201d at Marvel is set on an all-female penal colony in outer space. And there\u2019s a jailbreak.<\/p>\n
\u201cThis is born of a deep and abiding love for exploitation and women in prison movies of the \u201960s and \u201970s,\u201d DeConnick told the crowd. \u201cI like this stuff so much, and it\u2019s so terrible, it\u2019s so deeply awful and delicious, like those candies that are bad for you. So I wanted to see if there was a way that I could play with the things about it that I love and also the things about it that make me wildly uncomfortable.\u201d<\/p>\n
It\u2019s not surprising that some elements of the genre make the acclaimed writer uneasy. A champion of equality and diversity in gender and ethnicity in comic pages and in the industry, DeConnick is an inspiring voice at packed-to-the-walls Women of Marvel convention panels. She\u2019s taken that company\u2019s character Carol Danvers from being Ms. Marvel to \u201cCaptain Marvel\u201d \u2014 and a passionate group of fans called the Carol Corps has risen around that series, set to relaunch in March. Her Image series \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d similarly features magnetic female characters and has attracted fan art and even recordings of a song a character sings.<\/p>\n
So, about \u201cBitch Planet\u201d \u2026<\/p>\n
\u201cWe\u2019re commenting on \u2014 oh, I just got boring,\u201d she said on stage to laughter. \u201cIf anyone wants to talk about the academics of it, you can email me later.\u201d<\/p>\n
In a backstage interview, Hero Complex invited DeConnick, who was carrying a copy of Bev Zalcock\u2019s \u201cRenegade Sisters: Girl Gangs on Film,\u201d to jump into the academics of \u201cBitch Planet,\u201d and to discuss De Landro, her approach to dialogue and encouraging creativity from readers.<\/p>\n
Hero Complex: Up on stage after sort of joking around about \u201cBitch Planet,\u201d you started talking and then stopped and said you were getting academic. And so I would like you to get into the academics of it, especially considering your position in the comics industry as a very progressive, feminist, striving-for-equality-on-all-fronts person. It has an eye-popping title.<\/p>\n
Kelly Sue DeConnick: I think one of the things I said is this is us steering into the curve\u2026. No one gets to have their cake and eat it too. So I don\u2019t get to talk about the problems with the lack of diversity in both the books we put out and the creators behind them, I don\u2019t get to speak up about that and then not have my gender brought up as an issue as well\u2026. People will often apologize when they ask me about feminist issues in the industry, and it\u2019s tough. I don\u2019t want them to apologize. These are things that need to be discussed\u2026. My husband\u2019s [comics writer Matt Fraction] gender never comes up in an interview. I think it\u2019s a thing that, if we want it to get better, we have to talk about it. It\u2019s on the table whether we like it or not, so let\u2019s go ahead and \u2013 if it\u2019s there, let\u2019s sit down and feast.
\nSince launching in July 2012 with this No. 1, the Kelly Sue DeConnick-written “Captain Marvel” has developed a passionate following of readers who call themselves the Carol Corps. It pauses after this month’s No. 17 before relaunching in March with a new No. 1. (Marvel)<\/p>\n
Since launching in July 2012 with this No. 1, the Kelly Sue DeConnick-written \u201cCaptain Marvel\u201d has developed a passionate following of readers who call themselves the Carol Corps. It is on short hiatus before relaunching in March with a new No. 1. (Marvel)<\/p>\n
I\u2019ve been accused of putting forth sort of an agenda in \u201cCaptain Marvel,\u201d which I actually don\u2019t think I\u2019m doing at all. I think I\u2019ve been very true to what the character was created for, the roots of the character that I had nothing to do with. I was 7 years old when that character\u2019s first book came out under \u201cMs. Marvel.\u201d I\u2019ve been accused of putting forth an agenda and so on and so forth. There\u2019s a certain part of me that\u2019s just like, \u201cIf I\u2019m going to take the heat for it, well \u2026 let\u2019s do it then. Let\u2019s steer into the curve.\u201d<\/p>\n
I have this real love, this genuine affection for the exploitation films of the \u201960s, \u201970s and \u201980s. We\u2019ve talked about it with \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d in terms of some of the pinky violence films that came out of Japan and some of the really trashy old westerns\u2026. And so with this I wanted to do that. I could have fun with that; I could have a real sense of humor about it and then also turn over some of these real questions.<\/p>\n
One thing that we tend to do in comics is we\u2019ll put forth these salacious images on purpose just so we can wag our fingers at them. Exploitation did that without apology. And I guess I have questions about why the things about those movies that I love I love and the parts about them that make me wince \u2013 is there a way to still capture the things that I enjoy and extricate the things that I find deeply problematic? Can I give these women agency? Is there a way for me to turn exploitation over in my mouth and not have it be exploitative?<\/p>\n
I don\u2019t know. I sincerely don\u2019t know. I\u2019m fascinated by the question. I want the book to be \u2013 I don\u2019t want it to be an academic paper. I want it to be accessible and fun and funny and sexy and violent and all of the sugary things I talked about earlier today \u2013 the things that are like the bad candy. I\u2019m not sure.<\/p>\n
I have a really smart co-creator who I\u2019m excited about working with. And I\u2019ve also engaged Danielle Henderson, who is a friend of mine from the W.E.F., which was the Warren Ellis Forum, which is where I met my husband\u2026. So I met Danielle there, and she is an author in her own right. \u201cTales From Fish Camp\u201d was her first book; she\u2019s also the author of the \u201cFeminist Ryan Gosling,\u201d and she has a master\u2019s, I believe, in women\u2019s studies. She\u2019s very interested in these questions as well.
\nArt by Valentine De Landro previewing “X-Factor” No. 224.1 (2011). (Marvel)<\/p>\n
Art by Valentine De Landro previewing \u201cX-Factor\u201d No. 224.1 (2011), which was written by Peter David. (Marvel)<\/p>\n
HC: Where did you first see De Landro\u2019s art, and what caught your eye about it?<\/p>\n
KSD: I met him in Toronto at Fan Expo. I do a thing. My profile has gotten a bit bigger, so it\u2019s a little bit harder for me to do this, but not impossible. I try to make time at any show to walk around artist alley and find artists I don\u2019t know and get excited about their work. It was the last day of Fan Expo and I\u2019m walking around. And there\u2019s a thing that happens. It\u2019s happening less and less, but this was a few years ago. There\u2019s a thing that happens where there are certain people who sit at their table and, if you\u2019re female, they look through you and they\u2019re looking for the wallet that accompanies you, I think. And Val didn\u2019t do that. I was walking around by myself, and Val \u2013 without having any idea who I was \u2013 engaged me, stood up and greeted me, showed me his portfolio. Treated me as though I might be a colleague.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s such a simple thing, but it meant so much to me. And then I started flipping through his portfolio, and was blown away by what I saw. And then we exchanged business cards and started corresponding. I was trying to get him and I together on a Marvel book, and the timing never worked out right. He was like, \u201cWe don\u2019t have to wait for someone else to give us something. Let\u2019s just do something.\u201d<\/p>\n
HC: Was there a particular image of his that grabbed you?<\/p>\n
KSD: There were some pages from [\u201cX-Factor\u201d] with Peter David\u2026. It was the drama that got me. It was heavy use of blacks, very shaded. I was always look for good acting. These were tense, personal moments that were still high-stakes high action. I was very impressed with that. I sent him a list of projects that I had, and he picked three. Two of them that, you know, he was like, \u201cI like this one and I like this one, but I gotta say, my first choice here is this \u2018Bitch Planet\u2019 book.\u201d<\/p>\n
HC: When I spoke with Warren Ellis about \u201cMoon Knight\u201d a few months ago, I asked him about working with you on the \u201cAvengers Assemble\u201d issues that you did together and he said, and I quote, he was talking about how he was doing first drafts, \u201cI\u2019m writing in dialogue \u2026 but I\u2019m hoping she rewrites it all because her voice is more rhythmic and warmer and more characterful than mine\u201d and then, referring to \u201cPretty Deadly,\u201d told me to look forward to it; he said you have \u201ca real eye for narrative engines.\u201d<\/p>\n
KSD: I\u2019m going to cry. It\u2019s funny because Warren is like a year and a half older than me but he\u2019s been such a mentor to me that this is very much like you telling me daddy approves. I\u2019m seriously choked up.
\nEmma Rios’ cover for “Pretty Deadly” No. 4, which was released Wednesday. (Image)<\/p>\n
Emma Rios\u2019 cover for \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d No. 4, which was released Wednesday. (Image)<\/p>\n
HC: Looking ahead to \u201cBitch Planet,\u201d how might the dialogue for that project be different from the dialogue you\u2019ve done in other things?<\/p>\n
KSD: \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d is pretty definitely a \u2013 I don\u2019t know if you can say this thing about yourself \u2013 but I\u2019m shooting for a lyrical voice there. I still want all of the characters\u2019 voices distinctive. I always want my books to be able to be read out loud. What I\u2019m going for in \u201cPretty Deadly\u201d is a musicality. In something like \u201cCaptain Marvel,\u201d I want naturalistic dialogue that allows us to get the exposition out in ways that feel comfortable and sincere. And then in \u201cAvengers Assemble,\u201d I\u2019m really going for humor. It\u2019s meant to be jaunty patter. \u201cBitch Planet\u201d is, I don\u2019t know, like \u201cDie Hard.\u201d I want my \u201cyippie-kai-yay \u2026\u201d moments in here. It should be sharp and strong and badass. It\u2019s what I\u2019m going for, anyway. I\u2019ll leave it to you to determine whether it works.<\/p>\n
HC: One thing I think is especially notable about your work outside of the work itself is how \u2013 I know you did not personally instigate Carol Corps, but it sort of formed around \u201cCaptain Marvel.\u201d And you\u2019ve certainly encouraged it and interacted with them. And now with \u201cPretty Deadly,\u201d you\u2019re actively inviting fan art. Can you talk about the importance of developing a community where it\u2019s not just a one-way direction, but they\u2019re also actively creating back at you?<\/p>\n
KSD: I think there is a good side and a dark side. I think this can be handled well or it can be handled poorly. I think it\u2019s going very well, with the Carol Corps in particular. To me, the purpose of fiction is to make us feel human and connected to one another. When I read a story and have an emotional reaction to it, what I\u2019m reacting to is this idea that I am not alone in my perception of this world, that this existential angst or the beauty of looking at my child sleeping or whatever it may be that I am not the only one in the world who has ever experienced this, that I have community, that I have connection. We all are born into the world and we all go out alone. What we do in the time between is try to find other hearts to connect to. That is the higher purpose of fiction.<\/p>\n
The least important part of Carol Corps is the book. The most important part of Carol Corps is how it\u2019s brought people together and how those people have then been inspired by the ethics and code of this character to go out and welcome others and to reach into their own communities and be supportive. These are phenomenally generous human beings who have come together around those ideas. And that is magical. I\u2019m utterly and completely blessed to be a part of that.<\/p>\n
I think where it can go awry is\u2026. We have this instant feedback loop now. The book comes out on Wednesday. Before most stores open, people are scanning and commenting on the books. And that immediate feedback loop is very addictive. It\u2019s like a shot of dopamine\u2026. It\u2019s this high. It\u2019s a very addictive thing. I think where it becomes dangerous to you as an artist \u2013 if I may be so pretentious \u2013 I think when it becomes dangerous to you as an artist is if you start trying to please everyone all the time and if you don\u2019t follow your own conscience and intuition and education about how to structure your stories and your characters and make the books that feel right and read well to you and your editor, and you start trying to make something for everyone, I think you\u2019ll lose your connection to it and I think it\u2019ll lose its power as well.<\/p>\n
I hope that I am able to engage and take that feedback without doing those things. I think so far I have been able to. But, you know, I mean, I did write a Carol Corps issue. I did write an issue that was explicitly embracing the fans and saying thank you for that support. I don\u2019t think it was a mistake \u2013 I\u2019m really proud of that issue. But it\u2019s a question to think about.